ASK MITCHDon't bother asking your representative about how HB2614 works.
Here's why:
To: REP Greenlick
Subject: HB2614
Just exactly how is this bill (law) in the interests of anyone except the two largest political parties and incumbents like yourself? Politics as usual is it? You want to disenfranchise anyone who threatens your "buddy system" and erect roadblocks for independent candidates. More and more Oregon voters are deserting the two established parties. Instead of trying to listen and discern why this may be and address the causes, you and (almost all of your cronies) "circle the wagons" and enact this blatantly unconstitutional law.Ralph Nader showed you for what you really are; scared of a fair, open election process. It's more important for you to preserve your own asses than to allow any fresh air or ideas into the system. Count every vote - HAH! By closing your eyes and ears to the will of a growing percentage of the electorate, you demonstrate your elitist, selfish attitudes yet again. Whatever your motivation, democracy will not be stifled.You just don't get it.
P.S. Take me off your mailing list!
From: Rep Greenlick
To: StoneGuy
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: HB2614
Would you like an answer from me, or do you simply want to vent?
Mitch
From: StoneGuy [mailto:stoneguy@comcast.net]
Sent: Fri 1/27/2006 8:29 AM
To: Rep Greenlick
Subject: Re: HB2614
If there's an answer that makes sense, I'd love to hear it!
From: Rep Greenlick
To: StoneGuy
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: HB2614
If the bill is the one that stops party members from voting in the primary and then signing nominating petitions in the same nominating process, here is what was in my consideration. Anybody who had deserted either of the political parties (as you say, more than a quarter of the voters) won't be affected. Registered Ds vote in the Democratic primary and registered Rs vote in the Republican primary. The theory is that gives them their primary vote. People who aren't a member of either party are also entitled to one "vote" that is signing one petition for a candidate for any single office. That seems fair and gives each person the equivalent of one vote in the primary. It didn't seem fair for a person to vote in the Democratic primary for an office and then vote again by signing a petition for nominating somebody to an office.So the bill isn't intended to disenfranchise anybody who isn't a party member, it's intent is to stop party members from having more than one "vote" in the primary system..
Mitch
ps. Do you still want off my mailing list?
From: StoneGuy [mailto:stoneguy@comcast.net]
Sent: Tue 1/31/2006 10:22 PM
To: Rep Greenlick
Subject: Re: HB2614
Maybe I'm misinformed. If I'm registered as R, I can't vote for any R candidates in the primary if I sign a petition for an Independent? Or is it that, If I'm registered as R, and I sign a petition for an Independent, my signature is not counted. What if I favor R's (or D's in a parallel universe) except for the office for which I sign a nominating petition? What about ballot measures? Help!
From: Rep Greenlick
To: StoneGuy
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:59 AM
Subject: RE: HB2614
You will automatically get a ballot in the R primary. I think that disqualifies your signature if you sign a petition to nominate an independent, under the concept that you have already voted. But it might only be if you have returned the ballot and actually voted. ( I don't remember which.) It sounds like you should favor, as I do, the initiative that is on the streets now to create the open primary in Oregon. That approach allows everybody to vote in the primary for all candidates for an office. And the top two vote-getters move on to the general election, whether they are Rs, Ds, Libertarians, or Independents.
Mitch
From: StoneGuy [mailto:stoneguy@comcast.net]
Sent: Thu 2/2/2006 11:42 AM
To: Rep Greenlick
Subject: Re: HB2614
Where's the best place to determine exactly what the effects of this bill will be? If an important bill affecting my voting rights is confusing to you, something's wrong. If there's better legislation or an initiative, why vote for HB2614? It still sounds as if it limits my freedom to support whomever I choose by forcing me into an all or nothing situation. It still effectively keeps independents off the ballot. It still tends for protect the two major parties and incumbents. I suspect that the two latter results were the primary reason for it's introduction and bipartisan support - what other event or urgent public need was addressed? Help me, here. The Nader situation was not created by R's. If it was exploited by R's - well, democracy is messy. But the solution is not less democracy - it's more democracy. Don't you think?
From: Rep Greenlick
To: StoneGuy
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: HB2614
I think the effect of the bill is clear. I just don't remember the details and didn't look it up to check. The last time I saw it was 6-7 months ago among dozens of other bills. Democracy is messy. But I really approve of the principle of one person - one vote. And that is what convinced me on this one. And the effect will certainly make it more difficult for independents to get on the ballot, but really not too difficult. Senator Ben Westlund, who is considering a run for governor as an independent told me getting 18,000 independent signatures wouldn't be a barrier. The much more important barrier is the decision of whether an independent could actually win. And you certainly have a choice. You get to choose whether you are a member of the Democrat Party, the Republican Party or an independent. And you can change that back and forth at will by changing your registration. If you decide you are an R you get to vote in the R primary to determine that party's candidates in the General Election. If you want to effect which independent candidates are nominated, become an independent. And, of course, when November comes you get to vote for nominees from several parties.
Mitch
From:
stoneguy@comcast.netSent: Thu 2/2/2006 10:14 PM
To: Rep GreenlickSubject:
Re: HB2614
No, seriously. Should I contact the Elections Division or what? For the record, I too approve of that one person - one vote principle. I just didn't see it compromised by the old system. Until Nader's failed bid, nobody said boo. Too much coincidence for me. I fail to see how restricting who can sign nominating petitions does anything but restrict choice. A vote is a vote - a signature on a nominating petition is NOT a vote. It seems pretty clear to me. If I can't help put my favored candidate on the ballot - I can't vote for him/her either. As for the new system making it more difficult for an independent to get on the ballot, how difficult is too difficult? Who makes that judgement? Ben Westlund's optimism notwithstanding, any reduction in access to the political system is suspect. Especially when it's sponsored by those with the most to lose.Ideally we would all affect which candidates are nominated, regardless of party affiliation. Thanks for the chat.
Well, one way to do that is to support the Open Primary initiative proposal. I certainly do support that, although the leaders of both parties oppose it. I guess that makes it a bi-partisan proposal. And the small parties also oppose it -- a multi-partisan proposal.
Mitch
HOW TO CONTROL THE ARGUMENT
I listened to part of an interview yesterday afternoon on the Tom Parker show on KPAM. Tom, a pretty conservative fellow (from all I hear on his show) had Vicki Phillips on. I must say Tom seemed a little credulous as he listened and reacted to the standard litany (SL) from Phillips about "funding cuts", teacher layoffs, shortened school years, etc. She even brought up my favorite, how administrative costs account for only about 4% of PPS' budget after all the streamlining and "hard work" she and the school board have done.
Near the end of the interview Phillips asserted (I can't quote exactly) that they (she and the school board) "... turned over all the rocks to find cost savings and now there was nothing left to do but ask for more taxes." ("or else", see SL above ).
The most dramatic idea she tossed out other than the SL was closing more schools. Why? Just because there aren't nearly enough kids to warrant keeping about a dozen of them open? That only sounds drastic to Phillips because it might jeopardize her job.
I realized that she and the board had evidently not turned over some of the biggest "rocks" in the system. I realized that, apparently, some rocks were - like cartoons of Muhammed - sacred.
If they ever want to provide a good education "for the kids" and not just placate the OEA by providing a good deal "for the teachers", here are a few "rocks" that the school board had better turn over:
Huge PERS costs - how to reduce them.
PPS historic weakness in contract negotiations. A stunning (in any other milieu) demonstration of the board's lack of backbone and real responsibility to their employers - the taxpayers (not just the special interest groups, and I include parents).
Vouchers/Charter Schools
Privatization
and, scariest of all,
Means tested tuition for public school students.
All these ideas are out there - all proposed by one or more folks with solid credentials in the education field (as opposed to me). The sole reason they aren't seriously considered is the power and PR of the teachers unions; aided and abetted by parent activists who short-sightedly buy into the OEABS. Band-Aids will no longer work. The patient is hemorraging. Major surgery is required.
As for new taxes,
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.
"If you always do what you've always done and expect different results - you're insane.
It's time to employ a different educational paradigm, and a willingness to discuss the dismal state government controlled education is in today is the real test of whether someone cares about this society and its children. ...the consequences of staying on our current path are more than anyone is willing to pay."
Or, like students, forced to pay.
*from "Dan" a commenter at Sound Politics on the same subject in Washington State.